Agents Of Empire/Strategy - Revision history

Jota: /* Gwyne Fleet */

2011-08-16T05:00:52Z

Gwyne Fleet

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:00, 16 August 2011
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	** Jude might be able to spend his time in Turn 13 preparing some clever strategy/devices to do this when the portion of the fleet heading towards Elvis arrives there, especially if he has help from the Farlight Institute.		** Jude might be able to spend his time in Turn 13 preparing some clever strategy/devices to do this when the portion of the fleet heading towards Elvis arrives there, especially if he has help from the Farlight Institute.
	** Seve took over a military vehicle earlier by acting distressed, getting boarded, then using his land unit to fight the guys hand-to-hand. Maybe this tactic would work again?		** Seve took over a military vehicle earlier by acting distressed, getting boarded, then using his land unit to fight the guys hand-to-hand. Maybe this tactic would work again?
			*** That could be a good idea. But while that's totally the kind of thing a pirate would go for, is it the kind of thing a Gwyne soldier would go for? And would they immediately get blasted by the other nearby Gwyne ships? If we think this could work, then Thunderchild and the Yowlin' Yoshis could meet the part of the fleet that's headed toward Arroyo part-way. [[User:Jota\|Jota]] 22:00, 15 August 2011 (PDT)

	* '''Take back Vefna''' - This seems like something we should certainly try at some point. If we throw enough military units at it and add in a PC or two using an Adventure action, then we can probably wrest control of the planet back from Gwyne. I am not sure what exactly this would gain us, but I suspect there should be at least some useful stuff there that we can use in the fight. If we're really lucky, they might even have some space military units there that we can take control of. Here's one strategy we could use for the attack:		* '''Take back Vefna''' - This seems like something we should certainly try at some point. If we throw enough military units at it and add in a PC or two using an Adventure action, then we can probably wrest control of the planet back from Gwyne. I am not sure what exactly this would gain us, but I suspect there should be at least some useful stuff there that we can use in the fight. If we're really lucky, they might even have some space military units there that we can take control of. Here's one strategy we could use for the attack:

Lpsmith: /* Gwyne Fleet */

2011-08-16T04:31:07Z

Gwyne Fleet

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:31, 16 August 2011
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	* '''Try to steal some space units from the fleet''' - The Gwyne fleet is full of military ships. So we could just try to take some of them. At least, if we have collective testicles the size and hardness of an asteroid made of solid astro-diamond. Maybe someone with elite hacking skills could take control of their computers? Or maybe we could just fly up with one of our current rank-1 fighter ships, boost its effective rank with the help of a PC and a fate point, and board the enemy directly? Or something?		* '''Try to steal some space units from the fleet''' - The Gwyne fleet is full of military ships. So we could just try to take some of them. At least, if we have collective testicles the size and hardness of an asteroid made of solid astro-diamond. Maybe someone with elite hacking skills could take control of their computers? Or maybe we could just fly up with one of our current rank-1 fighter ships, boost its effective rank with the help of a PC and a fate point, and board the enemy directly? Or something?
	** Jude might be able to spend his time in Turn 13 preparing some clever strategy/devices to do this when the portion of the fleet heading towards Elvis arrives there, especially if he has help from the Farlight Institute.		** Jude might be able to spend his time in Turn 13 preparing some clever strategy/devices to do this when the portion of the fleet heading towards Elvis arrives there, especially if he has help from the Farlight Institute.
			** Seve took over a military vehicle earlier by acting distressed, getting boarded, then using his land unit to fight the guys hand-to-hand. Maybe this tactic would work again?

	* '''Take back Vefna''' - This seems like something we should certainly try at some point. If we throw enough military units at it and add in a PC or two using an Adventure action, then we can probably wrest control of the planet back from Gwyne. I am not sure what exactly this would gain us, but I suspect there should be at least some useful stuff there that we can use in the fight. If we're really lucky, they might even have some space military units there that we can take control of. Here's one strategy we could use for the attack:		* '''Take back Vefna''' - This seems like something we should certainly try at some point. If we throw enough military units at it and add in a PC or two using an Adventure action, then we can probably wrest control of the planet back from Gwyne. I am not sure what exactly this would gain us, but I suspect there should be at least some useful stuff there that we can use in the fight. If we're really lucky, they might even have some space military units there that we can take control of. Here's one strategy we could use for the attack:

Jota at 00:35, 16 August 2011

2011-08-16T00:35:08Z

Jota at 00:03, 16 August 2011

2011-08-16T00:03:12Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:03, 15 August 2011
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	* '''Build military air units''' - <del>This isn't quite so bad, but it would still take at least two turns and require a non-trivial amount of resources (including a factory). And on top of that, the units wouldn't be able to leave the planet they're built on under their own power. I think this might be a "worst of both worlds" option, personally.</del> We could consider doing this instead of the space units, but I think the space units will be better overall.		* '''Build military air units''' - <del>This isn't quite so bad, but it would still take at least two turns and require a non-trivial amount of resources (including a factory). And on top of that, the units wouldn't be able to leave the planet they're built on under their own power. I think this might be a "worst of both worlds" option, personally.</del> We could consider doing this instead of the space units, but I think the space units will be better overall.

	* '''Build ground troops''' - We can definitely try to do this. ~~<del>~~I'm not sure if it's better to build them on Elvis (where the materials we need to build them will be) or to ship the materials to another planet that has Good Military (in order to get the discount for that). Possibly a combination of both.</del> We'll probably be busy shipping the goods to make space units at the time, so any ground unit construction would have to be done on Elvis (where the refined goods are). Here's one strategy we could use for building them~~<del>~~, if inky still allows a PC action to substitute for a factory</del>:		* '''Build ground troops''' - <del>We can definitely try to do this. I'm not sure if it's better to build them on Elvis (where the materials we need to build them will be) or to ship the materials to another planet that has Good Military (in order to get the discount for that). Possibly a combination of both.</del> We'll probably be busy shipping the goods to make space units at the time<del>, so any ground unit construction would have to be done on Elvis (where the refined goods are). Here's one strategy we could use for building them, if inky still allows a PC action to substitute for a factory</del>:
	** On Turn 13, <del>The Space Whale travels from Boumfadour to Elvis, probably carrying some Kelp or Chemicals for later processing.</del> Elvis cashes in its recipe for making two cheap rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 14)<del> and also makes two units of rank-3 goods (Tactical MRE's)</del>.		** On Turn 13, <del>The Space Whale travels from Boumfadour to Elvis, probably carrying some Kelp or Chemicals for later processing.</del> Elvis cashes in its recipe for making two cheap rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 14)<del> and also makes two units of rank-3 goods (Tactical MRE's)</del>.
	** On Turn 14, ~~<del>~~The Space Whale takes the Tactical MRE's (and probably Rick unless there's a better choice) to Arroyo.~~</del>~~ Elvis makes two or three units of rank-2 goods (Energy Weapons) which it turns directly into two or three rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 15).		** <del>On Turn 14, The Space Whale takes the Tactical MRE's (and probably Rick unless there's a better choice) to Arroyo. Elvis makes two or three units of rank-2 goods (Energy Weapons) which it turns directly into two or three rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 15).</del>
	** <del>On Turn 15, Rick (or whoever) uses the Tactical MRE's to train three rank-3 military ground units (based on the formula Floor(C/(N+5)) = Floor(3*7/(3+5)) = 2, because of Arroyo's discount for Good Military). They'll be ready to defend Arroyo on Turn 16.</del>		** <del>On Turn 15, Rick (or whoever) uses the Tactical MRE's to train three rank-3 military ground units (based on the formula Floor(C/(N+5)) = Floor(3*7/(3+5)) = 2, because of Arroyo's discount for Good Military). They'll be ready to defend Arroyo on Turn 16.</del>
	** <del>On Turn 16, The Space Whale takes one or more of those military ground units to Boumfadour, which they'll be ready to defend on Turn 17.</del>		** <del>On Turn 16, The Space Whale takes one or more of those military ground units to Boumfadour, which they'll be ready to defend on Turn 17.</del>
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	(Dark speaks:) Definitely we should consider deception and delaying tactics. Perhaps the easiest would be to direct the enemy to the places we want (which turn out to be well-defended decoys) to have time to build up our military.		(Dark speaks:) Definitely we should consider deception and delaying tactics. Perhaps the easiest would be to direct the enemy to the places we want (which turn out to be well-defended decoys) to have time to build up our military.

			That seems like a good idea. Are you suggesting tricking them into attacking unimportant regions on our planets or into missing our planets entirely? Perhaps the Space Whale and the Reiglight Revenge could toss a few radio transponders out into deep space while they're in transit on Turn 13, to make broadcasts that sound like they're coming from our units, and hope that the attackers go after them before going after us? (Then we'd need to maintain radio silence on the real planets for the trick to work.) [[User:Jota\|Jota]] 17:03, 15 August 2011 (PDT)

Jbd: /* Gwyne Fleet */

2011-08-15T23:20:14Z

Gwyne Fleet

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:20, 15 August 2011
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	What does everyone else think? [[User:Jota\|Jota]] 23:13, 14 August 2011 (PDT)		What does everyone else think? [[User:Jota\|Jota]] 23:13, 14 August 2011 (PDT)

			(Dark speaks:) Definitely we should consider deception and delaying tactics. Perhaps the easiest would be to direct the enemy to the places we want (which turn out to be well-defended decoys) to have time to build up our military.

Jota: /* Gwyne Fleet */

2011-08-15T18:17:14Z

Gwyne Fleet

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:17, 15 August 2011
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	** On Turn 13, Thunderchild could pick up either the Yowlin' Yoshis or the Fightin' Fighters (or both) and take them to Vefna. Likewise, the Reiglight Revenge could pick up the Foreign Legion and do the same. If Jude so chose, he might go too (if he can use his Vehicles skill for space combat).		** On Turn 13, Thunderchild could pick up either the Yowlin' Yoshis or the Fightin' Fighters (or both) and take them to Vefna. Likewise, the Reiglight Revenge could pick up the Foreign Legion and do the same. If Jude so chose, he might go too (if he can use his Vehicles skill for space combat).
	** On Turn 14, they would be able to attack and hopefully take back the planet, with Kyil assisting from the other side.		** On Turn 14, they would be able to attack and hopefully take back the planet, with Kyil assisting from the other side.
	This seems like it's got a pretty good chance of success, but the downside is that all the units who go to fight on Vefna won't be available to defend Elvis or Arroyo.		This seems like it's got a pretty good chance of success, but the downside is that all the units who go to fight on Vefna won't be available to defend Elvis or Arroyo. In particular, we probably want someone to be on Arroyo to defend the new factory region we're constructing in order to build our warships.

	* '''Something else''' - Any other ideas?		* '''Something else''' - Any other ideas?

Jota: /* Gwyne Fleet */

2011-08-15T17:56:26Z

Gwyne Fleet

Jota: /* Gwyne Fleet */

2011-08-15T16:20:18Z

Gwyne Fleet

Jota: /* Gwyne Fleet */

2011-08-15T16:11:27Z

Gwyne Fleet

Jota at 16:00, 15 August 2011

2011-08-15T16:00:08Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:00, 15 August 2011
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	=== Gwyne Fleet ===		=== Gwyne Fleet ===

	So Gwyne has a fleet coming to attack us. What are some of our options, and the pros and cons thereof?		So Gwyne has a fleet coming to attack us. If they move quickly and directly, I believe the soonest they can arrive is the Landing phase of Turn 13, and the soonest they can attack is the Fighting phase of Turn 14. If they move slowly or stop to regroup (after their allies were just swallowed up by the wormhole), we might have a little more time.

			What are some of our options for dealing with them, and the pros and cons thereof?

	* '''Build military space units''' - This sounds nice in theory, but in practice it would take four turns even to build a rank-1 unit, plus a substantial amount of refined materials. And that doesn't even address the fact that no one has an appropriate factory (although I think a PC action could possibly negate the need for that). I'm not sure if it would be worth it to even try, given that we could be dedicating our resources toward other options.		* '''Build military space units''' - This sounds nice in theory, but in practice it would take four turns even to build a rank-1 unit, plus a substantial amount of refined materials. And that doesn't even address the fact that no one has an appropriate factory (although I think a PC action could possibly negate the need for that). I'm not sure if it would be worth it to even try, given that we could be dedicating our resources toward other options.
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	* '''Build military air units''' - This isn't quite so bad, but it would still take at least two turns and require a non-trivial amount of resources (including a factory). And on top of that, the units wouldn't be able to leave the planet they're built on under their own power. I think this might be a "worst of both worlds" option, personally.		* '''Build military air units''' - This isn't quite so bad, but it would still take at least two turns and require a non-trivial amount of resources (including a factory). And on top of that, the units wouldn't be able to leave the planet they're built on under their own power. I think this might be a "worst of both worlds" option, personally.

	* '''Build ground troops''' - We can definitely try to do this. I'm not sure if it's better to build them on Elvis (where the materials we need to build them will be) or to ship the materials to another planet that has Good Military (in order to get the discount for that). On the other hand, will ground troops really be that useful against an invasion from space?		* '''Build ground troops''' - We can definitely try to do this. I'm not sure if it's better to build them on Elvis (where the materials we need to build them will be) or to ship the materials to another planet that has Good Military (in order to get the discount for that). On the other hand, will ground troops really be that useful against an invasion from space? Here's one strategy we could use for building them, if inky still allows a PC action to substitute for a factory:
			** On Turn 12, The Space Whale travels from Boumfadour to Elvis, probably carrying some Kelp or Chemicals for later processing (and maybe Dark as well). Elvis cashes in its recipe for making two cheap rank-2 military ground units and also makes two units of rank-3 goods (Tactical MRE's).
			** On Turn 13, The Space Whale takes the Tactical MRE's (and probably either Jude or Rick or Dark) to Arroyo. Elvis makes two or three units of rank-2 goods (Energy Weapons) which it turns directly into two or three rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 14).
			** On Turn 14, the PC who went to Arroyo uses the Tactical MRE's to train three rank-3 military ground units (based on the formula Floor(C/(N+5)) = Floor(3*7/(3+5)) = 2, because of their discount for Good Military). They'll be ready to defend Arroyo on Turn 15.
			** On Turn 15, The Space Whale takes one or more of those military ground units to Boumfadour, which they'll be ready to defend on Turn 16.
			Note that this all takes some time, and so Dark will probably want to stay on Boumfadour and spend a fate point to defend it himself while waiting for reinforcements to arrive.

	* '''Try to steal some space units from the fleet''' - The Gwyne fleet is full of military ships. So we could just try to take some of them. If we have collective testicles the size and hardness of an asteroid made of solid astro-diamond. Maybe someone with elite hacking skills could take control of their computers? Or maybe we could just fly up with one of our current rank-1 fighter ships (like the Thunderchild) and boost its effective rank with the help of a PC and a fate point? Or something?		* '''Try to steal some space units from the fleet''' - The Gwyne fleet is full of military ships. So we could just try to take some of them. If we have collective testicles the size and hardness of an asteroid made of solid astro-diamond. Maybe someone with elite hacking skills could take control of their computers? Or maybe we could just fly up with one of our current rank-1 fighter ships (like the Thunderchild) and boost its effective rank with the help of a PC and a fate point? Or something?

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:35, 15 August 2011
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	What are some of our options for dealing with them, and the pros and cons thereof?		What are some of our options for dealing with them, and the pros and cons thereof?

	* '''Build military space units''' - <del>This sounds nice in theory, but in practice it would take four turns even to build a rank-1 unit, plus a substantial amount of refined materials. And that doesn't even address the fact that no one has an appropriate factory (although I think a PC action could possibly negate the need for that). I'm not sure if it would be worth it to even try, given that we could be dedicating our resources toward other options.</del> inky has lifted the four-turn minimum for building space units! So here's a possible strategy:		* '''Build military space units''' - inky has lifted the four-turn minimum for building space units! So here's a possible strategy:
	** On Turn 13, The Space Whale travels from Boumfadour to Elvis, carrying the Reef Riders and probably also some Kelp or Chemicals for later processing. Bram and the Lewison Clarks explore the heck out of a new region on Arroyo. Elvis makes two units of rank-2 refined goods (Large Energy Weapons).		** On Turn 13, The Space Whale travels from Boumfadour to Elvis, carrying the Reef Riders and probably also some Kelp or Chemicals for later processing. Bram and the Lewison Clarks explore the heck out of a new region on Arroyo. Elvis makes two units of rank-2 refined goods (Large Energy Weapons).
	** On Turn 14, The Space Whale ships the Large Energy Weapons and the Reef Riders to Arroyo. Bram and the Lewison Clarks finish exploring the new region up to Explored-I (plus a bit). Then they use the terraformer to help build a shipyard on that region, upgrading it to Factory-I (normally 25Mc, but only 15Mc because of the terraformer).		** On Turn 14, The Space Whale ships the Large Energy Weapons and the Reef Riders to Arroyo. Bram and the Lewison Clarks finish exploring the new region up to Explored-I (plus a bit). Then they use the terraformer to help build a shipyard on that region, upgrading it to Factory-I (normally 25Mc, but only 15Mc because of the terraformer).
	** On Turn 15, Bram, the Lewison Clarks, and the Reef Riders finish exploring the new region up to Explored-II. They use the terraformer to upgrade the shipyard on that region, bringing it to Factory-II (normally 25Mc, but only 15Mc because of the terraformer -- thus spending all of our money). Arroyo's new factory region constructs two rank-2 warships using the Large Energy Weapons. (Normally 28Mc each, reduced to 12Mc with their Good Military: Floor(12/(2+5)) = 1 rank-2 good apiece.)		** On Turn 15, Bram, the Lewison Clarks, and the Reef Riders finish exploring the new region up to Explored-II. They use the terraformer to upgrade the shipyard on that region, bringing it to Factory-II (normally 25Mc, but only 15Mc because of the terraformer -- thus spending all of our money). Arroyo's new factory region constructs two rank-2 warships using the Large Energy Weapons. (Normally 28Mc each, reduced to 12Mc with their Good Military: Floor(12/(2+5)) = 1 rank-2 good apiece.)
	** On Turn 16, the warships go wherever they're needed.		** On Turn 16, the warships go wherever they're needed. And they are awesome.

	* '''Build military air units''' - <del>This isn't quite so bad, but it would still take at least two turns and require a non-trivial amount of resources (including a factory). And on top of that, the units wouldn't be able to leave the planet they're built on under their own power. I think this might be a "worst of both worlds" option, personally.</del> We could consider doing this instead of the space units, but I think the space units will be better overall.		* '''Build military air units''' - We could consider doing this instead of the space units, but I think the space units will be better overall.

	* '''Build ground troops''' - ~~<del>We~~ can definitely try to do this. I'm not sure if it's better to build them on Elvis (where the materials we need to build them will be) or to ship the materials to another planet that has Good Military (in order to get the discount for that). Possibly a combination of both.</del> We'll probably be busy shipping the goods to make space units at the time<del>, so any ground unit construction would have to be done on Elvis (where the refined goods are). Here's one strategy we could use for building them, if inky still allows a PC action to substitute for a factory~~</del>:~~		* '''Build ground troops''' - A PC action can't substitute for a factory anymore, and we probably want to focus our factory-based building on space units right now. Elvis does have a recipe for making a couple cheap units once, so we may as well go ahead and do that, at least.
	** On Turn 13, <del>The Space Whale travels from Boumfadour to Elvis, probably carrying some Kelp or Chemicals for later processing.</del> Elvis cashes in its recipe for making two cheap rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 14)<del> and also makes two units of rank-3 goods (Tactical MRE's)</del>.
	** <del>On Turn 14, The Space Whale takes the Tactical MRE's (and probably ~~Rick unless there's a better choice)~~ to ~~Arroyo. Elvis makes two or three units of rank-2 goods (Energy Weapons) which it turns directly into two or three rank~~-~~2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 15).</del>~~
	** <del>On Turn 15, Rick (or whoever) uses the Tactical MRE's to train three rank-3 military ground units (based on ~~the formula Floor(C/(N+5)) = Floor(3*7/(3+5)) = 2, because of Arroyo's discount for Good Military). They'll be ready to defend Arroyo on Turn 16.</del>~~
	** <del>On Turn 16, The Space Whale takes one or more of those military ground units ~~to Boumfadour, which they'll be ready to defend on Turn 17~~.~~</del>~~
	<del>Note that this all takes some time, and so Dark will probably want to stay on Boumfadour and spend a fate point to defend it himself while waiting for reinforcements to arrive (rather than going to Arroyo in Rick's place).</del> inky does ~~not still allow~~ a ~~PC to substitute~~ for a ~~Factory. And one big concern~~ we ~~should consider: will ground troops really be~~ that ~~useful against an invasion from space?~~

	* '''Try to steal some space units from the fleet''' - The Gwyne fleet is full of military ships. So we could just try to take some of them. If we have collective testicles the size and hardness of an asteroid made of solid astro-diamond. Maybe someone with elite hacking skills could take control of their computers? Or maybe we could just fly up with one of our current rank-1 fighter ships, boost its effective rank with the help of a PC and a fate point, and board the enemy directly? Or something?		* '''Try to steal some space units from the fleet''' - The Gwyne fleet is full of military ships. So we could just try to take some of them. At least, if we have collective testicles the size and hardness of an asteroid made of solid astro-diamond. Maybe someone with elite hacking skills could take control of their computers? Or maybe we could just fly up with one of our current rank-1 fighter ships, boost its effective rank with the help of a PC and a fate point, and board the enemy directly? Or something?
	** Jude might be able to spend his time in Turn 13 preparing some clever strategy/devices to do this when the portion of the fleet heading towards Elvis arrives there, especially if he has help from the Farlight Institute.		** Jude might be able to spend his time in Turn 13 preparing some clever strategy/devices to do this when the portion of the fleet heading towards Elvis arrives there, especially if he has help from the Farlight Institute.

	* '''Take back Vefna''' - This seems like something we should certainly try at some point. If we throw enough military units at it and add in a PC or two using an Adventure action, then we can probably wrest control of the planet back from Gwyne. I am not sure what exactly this would gain us, but I suspect there should be at least some useful stuff there that we can use in the fight. If we're really lucky, they might even have some space military units there that we can take control of. Here's one strategy we could use for the attack:		* '''Take back Vefna''' - This seems like something we should certainly try at some point. If we throw enough military units at it and add in a PC or two using an Adventure action, then we can probably wrest control of the planet back from Gwyne. I am not sure what exactly this would gain us, but I suspect there should be at least some useful stuff there that we can use in the fight. If we're really lucky, they might even have some space military units there that we can take control of. Here's one strategy we could use for the attack:
	** On Turn 13, Thunderchild could pick up either the Yowlin' Yoshis or the Fightin' Fighters (or both) and take them to Vefna. Likewise, the Reiglight Revenge could pick up the Foreign Legion and do the same. If Jude ~~so chose, he might~~ go ~~too (if he can use his Vehicles skill for space combat)~~.		** On Turn 13, Thunderchild could pick up either the Yowlin' Yoshis or the Fightin' Fighters (or both) and take them to Vefna. Likewise, the Reiglight Revenge could pick up the Foreign Legion and do the same. Jude or Rick would probably go with them.
	** On Turn 14, they would be able to attack and hopefully take back the planet, with Kyil assisting from the other side.		** On Turn 14, they would be able to attack and hopefully take back the planet, with Kyil assisting from the other side.
	This seems like it's got a pretty good chance of success, but the downside is that all the units who go to fight on Vefna won't be available to defend Elvis or Arroyo. In particular, we probably want someone to be on Arroyo to defend the new factory region we're constructing in order to build our warships.		This seems like it's got a pretty good chance of success, but the downside is that all the units who go to fight on Vefna won't be available to defend Elvis or Arroyo. In particular, we probably want someone to be on Arroyo to defend the new factory region we're constructing in order to build our warships. So how about we try it with just the Reiglight Revenge and Foreign Legions, plus a PC from Elvis?

	* '''Something else''' - Any other ideas?		* '''Something else''' - Any other ideas?
			** It looks like Dark found a crashed Gwyne ship on turn 12 which he could likely salvage.

	Given Dark's military expertise, perhaps he can answer some of the questions we have, like how soon before the Gwyne fleet actually attacks, how useful ground units will be, or how much power we need for an assault on Vefna.		Given Dark's military expertise, perhaps he can answer some of the questions we have, like how soon before the Gwyne fleet actually attacks, how useful ground units will be, or how much power we need for an assault on Vefna.

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:56, 15 August 2011
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	What are some of our options for dealing with them, and the pros and cons thereof?		What are some of our options for dealing with them, and the pros and cons thereof?

	* '''Build military space units''' - This sounds nice in theory, but in practice it would take four turns even to build a rank-1 unit, plus a substantial amount of refined materials. And that doesn't even address the fact that no one has an appropriate factory (although I think a PC action could possibly negate the need for that). I'm not sure if it would be worth it to even try, given that we could be dedicating our resources toward other options.		* '''Build military space units''' - <del>This sounds nice in theory, but in practice it would take four turns even to build a rank-1 unit, plus a substantial amount of refined materials. And that doesn't even address the fact that no one has an appropriate factory (although I think a PC action could possibly negate the need for that). I'm not sure if it would be worth it to even try, given that we could be dedicating our resources toward other options.</del> inky has lifted the four-turn minimum for building space units! So here's a possible strategy:
			** On Turn 13, The Space Whale travels from Boumfadour to Elvis, carrying the Reef Riders and probably also some Kelp or Chemicals for later processing. Bram and the Lewison Clarks explore the heck out of a new region on Arroyo. Elvis makes two units of rank-2 refined goods (Large Energy Weapons).
			** On Turn 14, The Space Whale ships the Large Energy Weapons and the Reef Riders to Arroyo. Bram and the Lewison Clarks finish exploring the new region up to Explored-I (plus a bit). Then they use the terraformer to help build a shipyard on that region, upgrading it to Factory-I (normally 25Mc, but only 15Mc because of the terraformer).
			** On Turn 15, Bram, the Lewison Clarks, and the Reef Riders finish exploring the new region up to Explored-II. They use the terraformer to upgrade the shipyard on that region, bringing it to Factory-II (normally 25Mc, but only 15Mc because of the terraformer -- thus spending all of our money). Arroyo's new factory region constructs two rank-2 warships using the Large Energy Weapons. (Normally 28Mc each, reduced to 12Mc with their Good Military: Floor(12/(2+5)) = 1 rank-2 good apiece.)
			** On Turn 16, the warships go wherever they're needed.

	* '''Build military air units''' - This isn't quite so bad, but it would still take at least two turns and require a non-trivial amount of resources (including a factory). And on top of that, the units wouldn't be able to leave the planet they're built on under their own power. I think this might be a "worst of both worlds" option, personally.		* '''Build military air units''' - <del>This isn't quite so bad, but it would still take at least two turns and require a non-trivial amount of resources (including a factory). And on top of that, the units wouldn't be able to leave the planet they're built on under their own power. I think this might be a "worst of both worlds" option, personally.</del> We could consider doing this instead of the space units, but I think the space units will be better overall.

	* '''Build ground troops''' - We can definitely try to do this. I'm not sure if it's better to build them on Elvis (where the materials we need to build them will be) or to ship the materials to another planet that has Good Military (in order to get the discount for that). Possibly a combination of both. Here's one strategy we could use for building them, if inky still allows a PC action to substitute for a factory:		* '''Build ground troops''' - We can definitely try to do this. <del>I'm not sure if it's better to build them on Elvis (where the materials we need to build them will be) or to ship the materials to another planet that has Good Military (in order to get the discount for that). Possibly a combination of both.</del> We'll probably be busy shipping the goods to make space units at the time, so any ground unit construction would have to be done on Elvis (where the refined goods are). Here's one strategy we could use for building them<del>, if inky still allows a PC action to substitute for a factory</del>:
	** On Turn 13, The Space Whale travels from Boumfadour to Elvis, probably carrying some Kelp or Chemicals for later processing. Elvis cashes in its recipe for making two cheap rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 14) and also makes two units of rank-3 goods (Tactical MRE's).		** On Turn 13, <del>The Space Whale travels from Boumfadour to Elvis, probably carrying some Kelp or Chemicals for later processing.</del> Elvis cashes in its recipe for making two cheap rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 14)<del> and also makes two units of rank-3 goods (Tactical MRE's)</del>.
	** On Turn 14, The Space Whale takes the Tactical MRE's (and probably Rick unless there's a better choice) to Arroyo. Elvis makes two or three units of rank-2 goods (Energy Weapons) which it turns directly into two or three rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 15).		** On Turn 14, <del>The Space Whale takes the Tactical MRE's (and probably Rick unless there's a better choice) to Arroyo.</del> Elvis makes two or three units of rank-2 goods (Energy Weapons) which it turns directly into two or three rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 15).
	** On Turn 15, Rick (or whoever) uses the Tactical MRE's to train three rank-3 military ground units (based on the formula Floor(C/(N+5)) = Floor(3*7/(3+5)) = 2, because of Arroyo's discount for Good Military). They'll be ready to defend Arroyo on Turn 16.		** <del>On Turn 15, Rick (or whoever) uses the Tactical MRE's to train three rank-3 military ground units (based on the formula Floor(C/(N+5)) = Floor(3*7/(3+5)) = 2, because of Arroyo's discount for Good Military). They'll be ready to defend Arroyo on Turn 16.</del>
	** On Turn 16, The Space Whale takes one or more of those military ground units to Boumfadour, which they'll be ready to defend on Turn 17.		** <del>On Turn 16, The Space Whale takes one or more of those military ground units to Boumfadour, which they'll be ready to defend on Turn 17.</del>
	Note that this all takes some time, and so Dark will probably want to stay on Boumfadour and spend a fate point to defend it himself while waiting for reinforcements to arrive (rather than going to Arroyo in Rick's place). And one big concern we should consider: will ground troops really be that useful against an invasion from space?		<del>Note that this all takes some time, and so Dark will probably want to stay on Boumfadour and spend a fate point to defend it himself while waiting for reinforcements to arrive (rather than going to Arroyo in Rick's place).</del> inky does not still allow a PC to substitute for a Factory. And one big concern we should consider: will ground troops really be that useful against an invasion from space?

	* '''Try to steal some space units from the fleet''' - The Gwyne fleet is full of military ships. So we could just try to take some of them. If we have collective testicles the size and hardness of an asteroid made of solid astro-diamond. Maybe someone with elite hacking skills could take control of their computers? Or maybe we could just fly up with one of our current rank-1 fighter ships, boost its effective rank with the help of a PC and a fate point, and board the enemy directly? Or something?		* '''Try to steal some space units from the fleet''' - The Gwyne fleet is full of military ships. So we could just try to take some of them. If we have collective testicles the size and hardness of an asteroid made of solid astro-diamond. Maybe someone with elite hacking skills could take control of their computers? Or maybe we could just fly up with one of our current rank-1 fighter ships, boost its effective rank with the help of a PC and a fate point, and board the enemy directly? Or something?

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:20, 15 August 2011
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	* '''Build military air units''' - This isn't quite so bad, but it would still take at least two turns and require a non-trivial amount of resources (including a factory). And on top of that, the units wouldn't be able to leave the planet they're built on under their own power. I think this might be a "worst of both worlds" option, personally.		* '''Build military air units''' - This isn't quite so bad, but it would still take at least two turns and require a non-trivial amount of resources (including a factory). And on top of that, the units wouldn't be able to leave the planet they're built on under their own power. I think this might be a "worst of both worlds" option, personally.

	* '''Build ground troops''' - We can definitely try to do this. I'm not sure if it's better to build them on Elvis (where the materials we need to build them will be) or to ship the materials to another planet that has Good Military (in order to get the discount for that). ~~On the other hand, will ground troops really be that useful against an invasion from space?~~ Here's one strategy we could use for building them, if inky still allows a PC action to substitute for a factory:		* '''Build ground troops''' - We can definitely try to do this. I'm not sure if it's better to build them on Elvis (where the materials we need to build them will be) or to ship the materials to another planet that has Good Military (in order to get the discount for that). Possibly a combination of both. Here's one strategy we could use for building them, if inky still allows a PC action to substitute for a factory:
	** On Turn 12, The Space Whale travels from Boumfadour to Elvis, probably carrying some Kelp or Chemicals for later processing. Elvis cashes in its recipe for making two cheap rank-2 military ground units and also makes two units of rank-3 goods (Tactical MRE's).		** On Turn 13, The Space Whale travels from Boumfadour to Elvis, probably carrying some Kelp or Chemicals for later processing. Elvis cashes in its recipe for making two cheap rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 14) and also makes two units of rank-3 goods (Tactical MRE's).
	** On Turn 13, The Space Whale takes the Tactical MRE's (and probably Rick unless there's a better choice) to Arroyo. Elvis makes two or three units of rank-2 goods (Energy Weapons) which it turns directly into two or three rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 14).		** On Turn 14, The Space Whale takes the Tactical MRE's (and probably Rick unless there's a better choice) to Arroyo. Elvis makes two or three units of rank-2 goods (Energy Weapons) which it turns directly into two or three rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 15).
	** On Turn 14, Rick (or whoever) uses the Tactical MRE's to train three rank-3 military ground units (based on the formula Floor(C/(N+5)) = Floor(3*7/(3+5)) = 2, because of Arroyo's discount for Good Military). They'll be ready to defend Arroyo on Turn 15.		** On Turn 15, Rick (or whoever) uses the Tactical MRE's to train three rank-3 military ground units (based on the formula Floor(C/(N+5)) = Floor(3*7/(3+5)) = 2, because of Arroyo's discount for Good Military). They'll be ready to defend Arroyo on Turn 16.
	** On Turn 15, The Space Whale takes one or more of those military ground units to Boumfadour, which they'll be ready to defend on Turn 16.		** On Turn 16, The Space Whale takes one or more of those military ground units to Boumfadour, which they'll be ready to defend on Turn 17.
	Note that this all takes some time, and so Dark will probably want to stay on Boumfadour and spend a fate point to defend it himself while waiting for reinforcements to arrive (rather than going to Arroyo in Rick's place).		Note that this all takes some time, and so Dark will probably want to stay on Boumfadour and spend a fate point to defend it himself while waiting for reinforcements to arrive (rather than going to Arroyo in Rick's place). And one big concern we should consider: will ground troops really be that useful against an invasion from space?

	* '''Try to steal some space units from the fleet''' - The Gwyne fleet is full of military ships. So we could just try to take some of them. If we have collective testicles the size and hardness of an asteroid made of solid astro-diamond. Maybe someone with elite hacking skills could take control of their computers? Or maybe we could just fly up with one of our current rank-1 fighter ships ~~(like the Thunderchild) and~~ boost its effective rank with the help of a PC and a fate point? Or something?		* '''Try to steal some space units from the fleet''' - The Gwyne fleet is full of military ships. So we could just try to take some of them. If we have collective testicles the size and hardness of an asteroid made of solid astro-diamond. Maybe someone with elite hacking skills could take control of their computers? Or maybe we could just fly up with one of our current rank-1 fighter ships, boost its effective rank with the help of a PC and a fate point, and board the enemy directly? Or something?
	** Jude might be able to spend his time in Turn 13 preparing some clever strategy to do this when the portion of the fleet heading towards Elvis arrives there, especially if he has help from the Farlight Institute?		** Jude might be able to spend his time in Turn 13 preparing some clever strategy/devices to do this when the portion of the fleet heading towards Elvis arrives there, especially if he has help from the Farlight Institute.

	* '''Take back Vefna''' - This seems like something we should certainly try at some point. If we throw enough military units at it and add in a PC or two using an Adventure action, then we can probably wrest control of the planet back from Gwyne. I am not sure what exactly this would gain us, but I suspect there should be at least some useful stuff there that we can use in the fight. If we're really lucky, they might even have some space military units there that we can take control of. Here's one strategy we could use for the attack:		* '''Take back Vefna''' - This seems like something we should certainly try at some point. If we throw enough military units at it and add in a PC or two using an Adventure action, then we can probably wrest control of the planet back from Gwyne. I am not sure what exactly this would gain us, but I suspect there should be at least some useful stuff there that we can use in the fight. If we're really lucky, they might even have some space military units there that we can take control of. Here's one strategy we could use for the attack:
	** On Turn 12, Thunderchild could pick up either the Yowlin' Yoshis or the Fightin' Fighters (or both) and take them to Vefna. Likewise, the Reiglight Revenge could pick up the Foreign Legion and do the same. If Jude so chose, he might go too (if he can use his Vehicles skill for space combat).		** On Turn 13, Thunderchild could pick up either the Yowlin' Yoshis or the Fightin' Fighters (or both) and take them to Vefna. Likewise, the Reiglight Revenge could pick up the Foreign Legion and do the same. If Jude so chose, he might go too (if he can use his Vehicles skill for space combat).
	** On Turn 13, they would be able to attack and hopefully take back the planet, with Kyil assisting from the other side.		** On Turn 14, they would be able to attack and hopefully take back the planet, with Kyil assisting from the other side.
	This seems like it's got a pretty good chance of success, but the downside is that all the units who go to fight on Vefna won't be available to defend Elvis or Arroyo.		This seems like it's got a pretty good chance of success, but the downside is that all the units who go to fight on Vefna won't be available to defend Elvis or Arroyo.

	* '''Something else''' - Any other ideas?		* '''Something else''' - Any other ideas?

			Given Dark's military expertise, perhaps he can answer some of the questions we have, like how soon before the Gwyne fleet actually attacks, how useful ground units will be, or how much power we need for an assault on Vefna.

	What does everyone else think? [[User:Jota\|Jota]] 23:13, 14 August 2011 (PDT)		What does everyone else think? [[User:Jota\|Jota]] 23:13, 14 August 2011 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:11, 15 August 2011
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	* '''Build ground troops''' - We can definitely try to do this. I'm not sure if it's better to build them on Elvis (where the materials we need to build them will be) or to ship the materials to another planet that has Good Military (in order to get the discount for that). On the other hand, will ground troops really be that useful against an invasion from space? Here's one strategy we could use for building them, if inky still allows a PC action to substitute for a factory:		* '''Build ground troops''' - We can definitely try to do this. I'm not sure if it's better to build them on Elvis (where the materials we need to build them will be) or to ship the materials to another planet that has Good Military (in order to get the discount for that). On the other hand, will ground troops really be that useful against an invasion from space? Here's one strategy we could use for building them, if inky still allows a PC action to substitute for a factory:
	** On Turn 12, The Space Whale travels from Boumfadour to Elvis, probably carrying some Kelp or Chemicals for later processing ~~(and maybe Dark as well)~~. Elvis cashes in its recipe for making two cheap rank-2 military ground units and also makes two units of rank-3 goods (Tactical MRE's).		** On Turn 12, The Space Whale travels from Boumfadour to Elvis, probably carrying some Kelp or Chemicals for later processing. Elvis cashes in its recipe for making two cheap rank-2 military ground units and also makes two units of rank-3 goods (Tactical MRE's).
	** On Turn 13, The Space Whale takes the Tactical MRE's (and probably ~~either Jude or~~ Rick ~~or Dark~~) to Arroyo. Elvis makes two or three units of rank-2 goods (Energy Weapons) which it turns directly into two or three rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 14).		** On Turn 13, The Space Whale takes the Tactical MRE's (and probably Rick unless there's a better choice) to Arroyo. Elvis makes two or three units of rank-2 goods (Energy Weapons) which it turns directly into two or three rank-2 military ground units (which can defend Elvis on Turn 14).
	** On Turn 14, ~~the PC who went to Arroyo~~ uses the Tactical MRE's to train three rank-3 military ground units (based on the formula Floor(C/(N+5)) = Floor(3*7/(3+5)) = 2, because of ~~their~~ discount for Good Military). They'll be ready to defend Arroyo on Turn 15.		** On Turn 14, Rick (or whoever) uses the Tactical MRE's to train three rank-3 military ground units (based on the formula Floor(C/(N+5)) = Floor(3*7/(3+5)) = 2, because of Arroyo's discount for Good Military). They'll be ready to defend Arroyo on Turn 15.
	** On Turn 15, The Space Whale takes one or more of those military ground units to Boumfadour, which they'll be ready to defend on Turn 16.		** On Turn 15, The Space Whale takes one or more of those military ground units to Boumfadour, which they'll be ready to defend on Turn 16.
	Note that this all takes some time, and so Dark will probably want to stay on Boumfadour and spend a fate point to defend it himself while waiting for reinforcements to arrive.		Note that this all takes some time, and so Dark will probably want to stay on Boumfadour and spend a fate point to defend it himself while waiting for reinforcements to arrive (rather than going to Arroyo in Rick's place).

	* '''Try to steal some space units from the fleet''' - The Gwyne fleet is full of military ships. So we could just try to take some of them. If we have collective testicles the size and hardness of an asteroid made of solid astro-diamond. Maybe someone with elite hacking skills could take control of their computers? Or maybe we could just fly up with one of our current rank-1 fighter ships (like the Thunderchild) and boost its effective rank with the help of a PC and a fate point? Or something?		* '''Try to steal some space units from the fleet''' - The Gwyne fleet is full of military ships. So we could just try to take some of them. If we have collective testicles the size and hardness of an asteroid made of solid astro-diamond. Maybe someone with elite hacking skills could take control of their computers? Or maybe we could just fly up with one of our current rank-1 fighter ships (like the Thunderchild) and boost its effective rank with the help of a PC and a fate point? Or something?
			** Jude might be able to spend his time in Turn 13 preparing some clever strategy to do this when the portion of the fleet heading towards Elvis arrives there, especially if he has help from the Farlight Institute?

	* '''Take back Vefna''' - This seems like something we should certainly try at some point. If we throw enough military units at it and add in a PC or two using an Adventure action, then we can probably wrest control of the planet back from Gwyne. I am not sure what exactly this would gain us, but I suspect there should be at least some useful stuff there that we can use in the fight. If we're really lucky, they might even have some space military units there that we can take control of.		* '''Take back Vefna''' - This seems like something we should certainly try at some point. If we throw enough military units at it and add in a PC or two using an Adventure action, then we can probably wrest control of the planet back from Gwyne. I am not sure what exactly this would gain us, but I suspect there should be at least some useful stuff there that we can use in the fight. If we're really lucky, they might even have some space military units there that we can take control of. Here's one strategy we could use for the attack:
			** On Turn 12, Thunderchild could pick up either the Yowlin' Yoshis or the Fightin' Fighters (or both) and take them to Vefna. Likewise, the Reiglight Revenge could pick up the Foreign Legion and do the same. If Jude so chose, he might go too (if he can use his Vehicles skill for space combat).
			** On Turn 13, they would be able to attack and hopefully take back the planet, with Kyil assisting from the other side.
			This seems like it's got a pretty good chance of success, but the downside is that all the units who go to fight on Vefna won't be available to defend Elvis or Arroyo.

	* '''Something else''' - Any other ideas?		* '''Something else''' - Any other ideas?

	What does everyone else think? [[User:Jota\|Jota]] 23:13, 14 August 2011 (PDT)		What does everyone else think? [[User:Jota\|Jota]] 23:13, 14 August 2011 (PDT)